Joe Benso:

We're here at the CV Summit in Zug, Switzerland, and we're talking with all the builders in this space who've come from all around the world. Can you introduce yourself and what you're doing here in Zug?

Soheyla (Soe) Haghighi:

GM, GM, what's up, what's up? This is Soe. I'm from Lugano, from Ticino, southern Switzerland, and I'm here at the CV Summit in Zug, because my friend Georg gave me FOMO, and he gave me a ticket to come over.

Morteza Shanini:

This is Mortiz. I'm also part of the Intraverse as a co-founder with Soe. I'm the CEO. We are here at this CV Summit because we love being in this space, doing some networking, getting to know new people, and seeing the real builders. Because I believe the people that remain in this market, we are in the building market, and they are the real builders, and we want to connect with the real builders, explore the opportunities, and see how we can do together.

Joe Benso:

Yeah, it's interesting. We're in Zug, which is also known as Crypto Valley, and you said it, we're not necessarily in a bear market, but we're in a BUILD market. So, tell us exactly what you guys are building.

Soe:

So, we have this Web3 engagement layer that goes through the gaming platform of Intraverse, and we gather communities from NFT collections and we engage them. We increase those collections' floor prices, sales volume, and organic growth on their channels, and we gather them in this gameplay where they can compete and collaborate. We extend this competition also to other platforms and other blockchains.

Joe Benso:

I noticed that you guys have your Ape Fest Bored Ape gear representing here in Zug, Obviously, you guys are fans and representing The Board Ape Yacht Club, Yuga Labs right? Tell us. You mentioned a community. Tell us what your experience has been, assuming holders of the NFT collection in these communities, and the value that you see not only in this bear market but for the future.

Soe:

So we went through an amazing experience during NFT Fest Lugano, which was organized by us in collaboration with other entities in Lugano. Also, the municipality participated, and we managed to organize as Intraverse the side event of Bored Ape. We are actually granted by the Bored Ape Council. It was amazing how the community still wants to meet up in real life and connect and network because everyone, especially in the Bored Ape community, is a builder, and everyone is trying to create a product or a service, most of the time building on their IP. This is great when it comes to collaborations and helping each other, especially during this building market. So, the community for us is just building together and staying together, being stronger.

Joe Benso:

You mentioned FOMO was one of the reasons why you came here. It's a powerful force, especially coming from none other than Georg. So, Georg, we'll get to you in a bit. And any recommendation by you, I think people will naturally follow. But tell me what it's like here in Zug what you're expecting so far and the connections that you're making.

Morteza Shanini:

What we are expecting, as you mentioned, here is the Crypto Valley. So, the first foundation of Ethereum, was built here. When you come here, you see the real people. You know, 30 minutes ago, we got to know the first lawyer who worked directly with the Ethereum Foundation, with Vitalik, to establish here the Ethereum Foundation. So, before the Crypto Valley.

When you come here, you see the real builders and the real OGs that you love to know, maybe you don't get to know them on Twitter, on Discord, or even on the podcast, but I think you need to interview them, and these guys, I mean, it is a really big opportunity to be with them, and try to connect with them and get insights from them because they are builders, from nine years, ten years, so they see up and down off the market. Having exchanges with them, I think, is really valuable. On Twitter, you cannot do that. But here, these people are here. You can go to them and say, you know, shake hands, say why you're here, and maybe have a 15-minute conversation that cannot happen outside.

Matt Schaffnit:

I think that's absolutely true and I think you're hitting on one of the most important points in that the technology that we're building and that we're playing with is supposed to leverage things that we want to do as human beings, not so that we just only live in some digital world and you can't replace getting together with human beings and that's exactly what you guys are doing in community building and linking these two parts together. I think that's cool and you're right, you cannot get the same experience through the Discord channels and stuff. You've got to come to some of these events I think you should be selective. I've been coming since 2017. I've seen varying levels of froth and heard a wide litany of things and it continues to mature and it's exciting and I think you guys are a representation of that.

Joe Benso:

So speaking of OGs and builders in this space, we have Georg Bak with us. Georg, you are a legend in this space. Happy to see you at these events. But maybe you can give some perspective as you've seen markets come and go especially around what you are focusing on these days, where you see the opportunities for the future. And what do you suggest people should be FOMOing into now?

Georg Bak:

Well, I can only speak from the art world side of it. NFTs especially. At the moment everything is a bit calm. And we have time to look at everything very closely, and also discover some jewels lying around that weren't as loud as other projects but were really important.

Joe Benso:

Do you want to give any historical alpha right now?

Georg Bak:

Well, it's funny, we're sitting here in Zug, the CV Summit, and five years ago, I was on stage with John Watkinson here, from CryptoPunks, Larva Labs. We had a 10-minute chat during the dinner. And just a few days later, we opened up the first Swiss blockchain art exhibition and showed CryptoPunks for the first time.

Joe Benso:

This was one of the first presentations of CryptoPunks publicly, right?

Georg Bak:

Yeah. As an art exhibition. Yeah. We brought them into the art world. Yes.

Joe Benso:

So what are you excited about in this space as you've seen the space mature? You mentioned some things are being overlooked right now, especially in the art world as NFTs. What keeps you excited about staying in this space and giving FOMO to your colleagues here to come?

Georg Bak:

Art never dies. There are always artists, and what we see is more and more acceptance from the traditional art world towards digital art. I am not just talking about NFTs, but the whole history of digital art. It's quite exciting that the artworks produced nowadays are much more mature. I would say even much more interesting than the early artworks, which were just as important because they were early, but they were not necessarily good art. Now we're seeing more and more great artists coming into the space, more and more art exhibitions. There's an amazing show at the House of Electronic Arts in Basel. Talking about all these NFTs that have been lying around and there are a few artworks in that show, for example, that didn't even mint out, but they are great art.

Obviously, they ended up in museum exhibitions. So I think there are a lot of things you can discover. As a collector now is the time to buy, now is the time to discover. Who knows? In the next few years, there will be new superstars and new interesting projects, and it's probably good to be aware of that and not just stop buying. There are great opportunities at the moment.

Joe Benso:

So, that's your FOMO alpha. What is your take on some of these communities that have been dismissed by mainstream media that tend not to really give much thought around the disruptive nature of the technology around NFTs? When we talk about communities, Bored Apes, for example, and other communities around PFP collectibles that show longevity, show commitment with communities finding value in so many different ways. What is your take on the future of these types of NFT projects?

Georg Bak:

I think we saw a few very successful communities, and some really successful products that came out of these communities. Great merch, great parties. If you want to build a new community, or a new PFP project, it's probably a tough one. But I still think that some of the successful communities will probably build alliances with other products and they will grow. I'm not sure whether the new ones will succeed because there were just too many PFP projects and people got a little bored.

Joe Benso:

Yeah, there's a little too much boredom around the Bored Apes, right? But you mentioned some of these projects collaborating or partnering in some ways. This is something very unique also around NFTs that technology enables this shared collaboration. Matt, you wanted to say something.

Matt Schaffnit:

Yeah, I'd just be interested, Georg, in your opinion on everybody at the table agrees that there's a lot of potential and value in NFTs in general, not only in the art community, whether it's digital art or physical art or community building and memberships and licensing and all that. What do you think some of the biggest misunderstandings around the technology are because as we saw, there was like a big hype cycle. Everyone ran in and it became very boring because it was kind of just the same. What do you think some of the big misunderstandings are from the public that are kind of a disconnect preventing or slowing down the adoption of where I think we all believe the technology is ultimately going?

Georg Bak:

Most people associate NFTs and crypto with speculation and fast money or stupid money. They're not curious enough to think about all the potential within this technology. NFTs are not just art or membership; you can wrap any type of legal right into an NFT. Just think about that potential and how easy it makes to hand over a legal right to someone. You can lend something. This is a huge market, a huge potential, and people should really watch out and see how they can transform their own businesses with this technology.

Matt Schaffnit:

I think that's a great point, hitting in on the legal things, and we know at a bare minimum that an NFT covers two legally distinct concepts, one being authenticity, acting as a certificate of authenticity, but it also demarcates ownership and providence. That's a very elegant solution, which creates a lot of efficiency and value for the marketplace at large.

Morteza Shanini:

I just want to add to what Georg said. I think another big challenge for adoption is about tangibility. These assets are not tangible. So when you talk with people, they question why you are paying for a JPEG, which is digital art, a couple of millions, a couple of hundreds of thousands. But they are okay to pay maybe for a Picasso for a couple of millions because they have the physical painting. “I put it in my home,” but at the end, it's not just the value of it being digital or physical. For digital art, it's important the art is behind, the source of what they have built. It's not important the canvas of the Picasso is a $20 canvas anyone can paint on; that is not important. The tool is important, the artist, the meaning, the community behind that. They think this is another challenge for the adoption that people are not understanding NFTs. They call it digital, why you're paying this JPEG, or also for digital currencies. People say we have the dollars because they see the bills, the notes. Why does Bitcoin have this value? It's digital, it doesn't exist, you know?

Matt Schaffnit:

Yeah, I think that's a great point. It's very common that the large community or the broader public doesn't understand, and if you go back in time and look at some of the funny bloopers about the internet, you had David Letterman making fun of Bill Gates because he had this concept of email and the internet. Right? Like, we shouldn't forget about that. The more things change, the more they stay the same, and that includes mindset in terms of being in the current moment and also recognizing where things are going and that they do inevitably change and evolve.

Joe Benso:

So I think the takeaway here with all this alpha is it is a builder's market. And we should start calling it that because we are seeing that everywhere we go. Lots of passion still in this space, a lot of things still being built, and a lot of maturing that this space is currently going through. So maybe if there are any last thoughts you want to leave us with and we'll get you back to the summit.

Soe:

Well, when you asked before about the misunderstanding communities have about NFT collections, and especially the blue-chip ones like Bored Apes, most people don't understand that when they purchase one of those assets, it's like buying a share of an emerging brand, like buying a little slice of Gucci at the very early stage and that makes the difference because now maybe Bored Ape sounds silent, but they're building in so many directions, like in gaming, in fashion, in so many directions. Having a piece of that, having an Ape, is like being part of the brand itself. So, I think it's a great investment, not only from a monetary point of view. I know it's like, it's not financial advice. I'm just really in love with the collection. It's not the only one that is building great things, but it's not just a piece of art, and it's not only a digital piece that you can just have in your wallet. There's a different, deeper meaning behind having an NFT.

Joe Benso:

Excellent. Well, I want to thank everybody here for coming and for FOMOing into this space, for Georg, for inviting you here. And thanks for your insights, Georg. Thanks for your passion and insights into what you guys are building. And good luck with your events as well.

Everyone:

Thank you. Cheers. Cheers. Cheers. Bye.